More or Less · Topics · Episode #160

Is Anthropic the New Evil Empire?

From #160 — Zuck says AI is for everyone, His Rivals Ask Washington To Slow it Down · July 31, 2026 · 5:12 min · Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Sam Lessin

Clip from the full recording, 18:56–24:08 · download mp4 · watch at this point on YouTube

Riffing off Meta's "for everyone" pitch, the trio turns the Star Wars analogy on the AI labs themselves — and lands on the idea that Anthropic, born out of anger at OpenAI, might now be the empire it set out to fight.

Jess presses Sam on whether Mark’s optimism is actually true, part true, or just unknowable. Sam says almost certainly all of the above — narratives run faster than reality on both the utopian and dystopian sides. That spins into a bigger frame: a year ago, OpenAI was clearly the “evil empire” and everyone else was the rebel alliance, with Nvidia cast as the real emperor pulling strings behind Vader. Now, Sam says, “maybe Anthropic is” the empire instead — even though he loves their product and uses it constantly.

Dave pushes the analogy further, invoking the Emperor’s line to Luke, “give in to your anger,” to argue that Anthropic’s posture is substantially driven by anger and spite toward OpenAI, which in turn provokes a backlash in the Valley against anyone acting morally superior. Jess offers a simpler theory: it’s not Star Wars, “it’s mean girls.” She also reminds them Anthropic went right for OpenAI’s jugular from day one — the “we won’t run ads” branding — long before anyone cast it as the plucky underdog.

Sam adds a second historical layer: OpenAI itself was the original “empire” story, founded because Google looked like an unstoppable power and the belief was that it’s better for the good guys to control something dangerous than let it fall into the wrong hands. Every generation in AI seems to convince itself it alone is righteous enough to wield the new, dangerous power — right up until the power corrupts them too.

Key points

• Sam: narratives on both the utopian and dystopian sides move faster than reality — probably both are true simultaneously.
• Sam: a year ago OpenAI was the evil empire and everyone else the rebel alliance, with Nvidia as the real emperor; now, he says, "maybe Anthropic is" the empire.
• Dave: Anthropic's posture is substantially driven by anger and spite toward OpenAI, echoing the Emperor's "give in to your anger" line to Luke.
• Dave: that anger provokes a backlash in the Valley toward anyone acting morally superior.
• Jess: it might be simpler than Star Wars — it's mean girls.
• Jess: Anthropic went right for OpenAI's brand jugular early (the "we won't run ads" campaign), long before people cast it as the underdog.
• Sam: OpenAI itself was founded as the "empire" response to Google's perceived unstoppable power — every generation thinks it alone should wield the dangerous new power, and the power always corrupts.

Where they landed

Quotes

“”— Sam

“”— Dave

“”— Jess

Suggested tweets

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