More or Less · Topics · Episode #159
All Hardware Is Open Source Now: Dave Makes the Case for Cautious Optimism
Clip from the full recording, 19:22–24:48 · download mp4 · watch at this point on YouTube
Dave argues AI security is just the 80s antivirus era again — models will always jump their sandbox, so an entire new industry has to be built to contain them, while Sam mutters "we're fucked" from the sidelines.
Asked point blank what alarm level the group should be at on AI security, Dave stakes out the optimistic case: humans have always adapted to new technology’s failure modes, and what the Hugging Face incident really shows is that harness engineering — building the sandbox a model can’t escape — is the industry’s central unsolved problem right now. He compares the moment to the early PC era, when networked computers started passing viruses to each other and an entirely new category of company (McAfee, Network Solutions) had to be invented to cope; AI security, in his view, is that same reckoning happening again.
Dave then steelmans the darker read to give Sam his due: these systems may already be too powerful to fully secure. He nearly tweeted that “all hardware is open source now” because there’s no hardware left that can’t be hacked with one of these models — and yet he doesn’t short Apple, because fewer than 10 million people currently use agent harnesses, precisely because they’re too hard to use and too expensive. Apple’s whole reason for existing was making computers usable for everyone; agents need the same UX leap, and that’s still far away. Jess presses a simpler, non-technical angle: the sandbox breakout was reportedly extremely compute-intensive, so why not just cap compute? Sam turns it into a bit — “the circuit breaker answer,” put your bot on a breaker in your basement — while Dave and Brit note it’s not that simple once agents are actually deployed live.
Key points
- Dave's optimistic case: harness engineering — containing models inside a usable sandbox — is AI's version of the 80s antivirus-industry reckoning.
- Dave nearly tweeted "all hardware is open source now" — there's no hardware left that these models can't hack.
- Despite that, Dave doesn't short Apple: fewer than 10 million people use agent harnesses today because they're too hard to use and too expensive.
- Dave's Apple analogy: agents need the same UX breakthrough that made personal computers usable for everyone — and that's still far off.
- Jess's practical angle: the Hugging Face breakout was reportedly extremely compute-intensive, suggesting compute caps as a blunt fix.
- Sam's "circuit breaker" joke — just put your bot on a breaker in your basement — gets waved off by Brit and Dave as too simple for live-deployed agents.
Where they landed
Quotes
“All hardware is open source now, because there's no hardware that you can't hack with one of these things.”— Dave
“We fucked.”— Sam
“Everyone needs the circuit breaker answer. You just need your bot on a circuit breaker in your basement.”— Sam
Suggested tweets
Dave Morin nearly tweeted this: "all hardware is open source now" — there's no hardware left that today's AI models can't hack
Tweet this →Asked about AI security, Dave Morin goes optimistic (this is just the 80s antivirus era again). Sam Lessin's entire reaction: "we fucked."
Tweet this →Sam Lessin's fix for rogue AI agents: "you just need your bot on a circuit breaker in your basement." Dave and Brit: not that simple
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